Talk:Faith Lehane

Age

I know that one book gave Faith's birth year as 1980, but that makes pretty much no sense. That would make her older than Buffy. Slayers are usually called at about fifteen years old, and Faith was called approximately two years after Buffy. Buffy also called Faith her "little sister slayer" or something along those lines. And the next point doesn't matter much in the world of acting, but Sarah Michelle Gellar is older than Eliza Dushku.

If you take the 15 years as a hard fact into account, you’d have to square with the fact that Willow is a full 8 years older than Kennedy and yet we’ve got them kissing in Season Seven, a 15 year old and a 23 year old, on national syndicated television nonetheless, something I’m not sure executives would have been fine on even with a straight couple. However, our articles have little to go on as far as Kennedy’s age. Other things to take into consideration are these: When would Potential Slayer-ship expire? Would you no longer be a Potential if you reached 21 and the previous Slayer dies? We also have no clue as to how the next Slayer is chosen, they seem to be chosen in happenstance, randomly or as fate or the Powers That Be decide. It’s something I think can’t really be discussed, so we’ll have to take our information as is.PonyEnglish 21:05, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

As far as Kennedy goes, it's all but explicitly stated she's at the upper end of the range to be called (Showtime: "In fact, the younger the better. In fact, I'm starting to think it might be too late for me."). So it's more likely she's 17 or 18 than 15.

As for Faith goes, if she really was born in December, 1980 (and I don't think that date is canon), that only makes her a month older than Buffy. That wouldn't put her out of the 'callable' range two years after Buffy got the nod. Both were still under 18, in any event. We could remove the date for questionable canonicity, of course. We'd could just say her age is close to Buffy's or some such. Amuk 21:59, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I think the date should stay. It's found in a book that was approved, by someone in the Buffy/Mutant Enemy Camp, and has yet to be challenged by another canon or canonesque source. Only one signing, PonyEnglish 23:20, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I can't remember where I read it, but I know that Kennedy's "understood" age was 19, obviously if not then the events of "Touched" constitute statutory rape. And I always go the vibe from season 3 that Faith was 17. I don't know why, but it seams reasonable. It would put her maybe only a couple months younger that Buffy. And, if Go Ask Malice is the book that you are taking this from, then it does state in the book that both Faith and her Watcher were worried before she was called that it was too late for her. kingdom2 00:23, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed Faith's birthdate. It's not canon, it's easily debatable, and we aren't that specific on the other characters pages.

The only reason we're not specific on other pages is because we don't have that information. Faith is a character with the very odd quality of having very, VERY specific dates/times (however "dubious") regarding her pre-Sunnydale life. I say the information should stay: it's not contradicted by the shows, thus there's no real problem with it. If, and only if a new, more "official" source (such as Season 8) comes out with a different date, should we remove it. We're going for a comprehensive Buffyverse encyclopedia here - so far, the only arguments I've seen against the date are based on complete and total fan speculation. Din's Fire 997 00:09, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I find the date a bit dubious and that it is contradicted by the show. Some of the issues mentioned above are speculative, but how about an issue not mentioned-- the Cruciamentum? If Faith's 18th birthday really was a month before Buffy's, she would've been in Sunnydale and Giles, who was her Watcher at the time, would've administered it. There's no way that there wouldn't have been fallout from that, and that’s not fan speculation. I also feel I should point out that this isn't a beta wiki or something. We probably shouldn't be placing non-canon material on this site, unless we make sure it's clearly separated. Also, I'm curious why we include events from one book, in this instance Go Ask Malice, but not events from other Buffy and Angel books. Go Ask Malice is no more canon than those books.

Mainly because no one's DONE it yet. When I read GAM I was fairly meticulous in getting all the articles updated. The fact that other books haven't been covered is not based on bias, simply lack-of-work. No one's bothered yet.
As for the Cruciamentum, that's covered as well. Faith was supposed to have one, but dicscovered the practice before it could be executed, thus ruining the whole thing.
Lastly, and I will say this again, calling any source, save the very, very few confirmed pieces, non-canon is speculation. The Buffy crew hasn't taken an offical stance on canon, thus, nothing is clearly noncanonical, though a ton in ambigiously canonical. This wiki is here to cover the Buffyverse as a whole. If a source, even outside of the show/canon-comics adds a clear, uncontradicted fact to a character, event, or whatever, it should be included until such time as it is contradicted by the shows/comics. Din's Fire 997 15:59, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

And also, it seems like the age at which a Potential becomes a Slayer is more of a guideline than an actual rule. Slayers seem to be called when and where they are needed, and them being younger is just a bonus. Lothos was about to rise and the closest Potential at the time was Buffy, so she was called. And as for Faith, Kakistos was coming into town and she was the closest. I don't think that we can really take their relative ages into account in determining this. kingdom2 18:50, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Go Ask Malice

Honestly, should all this 'Go Ask Malice' stuff be in here? The article now mentions all sorts of backstory for Faith as if it were canon, while it is not (the novel has no connection with Joss Whedon or any of the other writers on the show), and should thus be treated like all other Buffy novels out there. I mean, there are no facts from books like The Suicide King (which is from the same author as GAM), or The Evil That Men Do, or The Gatekeeper included in any of the other articles, now are there?

Also, in the Go Ask Malice article itself, the lines between canon and not are pretty blurry. There's a line that says, "It could be said that Go Ask Malice is to Faith what The Origin is to Buffy." It's not. The Origin has word from Joss Whedon that it could pretty much be regarded as canon, while Go Ask Malice has no such thing.

In my opinion, all of the mentions and references made to the Go Ask Malice novel should be removed from the Faith Lehane article, or alternatively moved to an 'in other media' section. Taking all info and placing it in the article of the novel itself could also work.

I used to agree with you, and argued this point extensively, but the problem is that there is no definitive Buffyverse canon. Some comics are confirmed to be canon, but others, such as IDW's Angel series are more ambiguous. If we ban non-canon stuff, we get sucked into debates about what qualifies. Since canon is the topic of much disagreement amongst fans, the only way to handle this neutrally is to just cover everything. For a main character like Faith, I wouldn't include too much expanded universe material, but since Go Ask Malice features a lot of exposition about her past, and doesn't contradict canon, I think it's okay. However, I'd maybe condense the info a little, since it does come from a dubious source. Paul730 15:45, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

Go Ask Malice

This is a great book, and in my mind it's canon, but nevertheless I understand the reservations about including information from it in Faith's biography. Maybe the best approach is to throw in a disclaimer, like "According to the novel Go Ask Malice, ...".

Faith's Dreams

When Faith and Buffy had their joint dream where they made a bed together (this was in Season 4, I don't remember the episode) Faith says "Dawn is coming, I know." Given the appearance of Dawn Summers at the end of Season 4, that sounds like a prophetic dream to me. Can anyone explain to me why it isn't?

Zhandele 20:24, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

I removed the link to Scifipedia. It's dead. Sigh.

Zhandele 14:12, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Withdrawal Symptoms?

I don't really get this line in Faith's personality section: "Faith often suggested that killing gives her a drug-like euphoria, and even suffered from addictive withdrawal symptoms when she was not able to inflict pain." What withdrawal symptoms? Are we talking about where she had flashes of harming people, like in "Who Are You?" where she thought about stabbing Willow and in "Sanctuary" where she thought about stabbing Angel? Frankly, I didn't see withdrawal there. I saw something more like intrusive thoughts, as she couldn't seem to control them and seemed to be disturbed by them. It appeared to be a symptom of some kind of mental illness more than anything else. The characters threw "psychotic" and associated terms around when talking about Faith without thinking about it, but they weren't so far off. I think we need to find a better way to phrase it than calling it withdrawal.

A Slayers Gift

Am I the only one who's curious about this, but it's said every Slayer has a gift. What's Faith's???

I was reading Go Ask Malice and in her dreams she kept hearing "vengeance" so could that be qualified? I'm not sure if you have to have a little discussion with the First Slayer like Buffy did or whatever, but this is really bothering me. And I'm sure there's not an answer, but can someone please tell me if you think we'll be finding out, if her gift's already been heard, their theories, whatever. I'm just going to blow up with curiosity.

Adenture Dude 16:19 5/14/2012 (UTC)